Wal-Mart - To Be Or Not To Be? - I am scheduled this afternoon to hear from representatives of Wal Mart regarding the structure of their proposed Super Center development project at the corner of US 301 and Martin Luther King Jr. Way. Ultimately the City Commission will have to decide whether to make the large city parcel available to Wal Mart for the project. Of course one big plus would be that cleanup of the site, currently a brownfield (former dump site), would be their responsibility. But there is of course the larger question, which is whether a new Super Center is a benefit to the economic development efforts for that area or a barrier. There are very good arguments to be made either way. So far the North Sarasota community seems generally supportive, and Wal Mart has come a long way from just building big plain box stores. My question is, what do you think?
posted by Michael McNees at 10:11 AM
17 Comments:
I am conflicted on liking Walmart and hating them. I agree they are convenient and would bring jobs to the area. I just do not like it so close to downtown. We are in such short supply of land downtown and with all the talk about affordable housing should we not look into that for the site? If the cost of the cleanup would be less than the appraisal of the land then maybe we should consider that for the site.
I think having such a huge discount store downtown may close some of the smaller establishments that cannot compete.
If we do allow them we should negotiate very very hard and get a lot out of it for the community and not the lousy 2% or so they offer. They make big buck with those big boxes and more should be given to our community if they are allowed.
I say "NO TO WALMART" for the simple reason they will add too much traffic to that intersection.
Gridlock occurs without the big box stores.Let's not make it worse until D.O.T comes up with some type of solution for U.S.301.
Why do we need so many of their stores in our town to begin with.They already have 4 or 5 Walmarts in Sarasota and Bradenton.
Cheaply made products from slave labor from overseas.They will price cut until it causes small business owners to close their shops. There has to be a consensus among the entire community if this is the right thing for all of us.
Explore all options for that piece of property. Maybe it can be useful for housing and small retail. Patience would be prudent.
What will Walmart do that makes it so interesting for Newtown? What types of ways are they trying to sell this to the community?
I Say No!
We cannot become like every other city and have a Walmart. Gross! Tell them to go downtown Bradenton.
It's amazing how much difference a few miles can make. In Osprey, just south of Sarasota, the residents warmly welcomed WalMart as their redevelopment salvation. But talk about putting a WalMart in Newtown, and everyone frets endlessly. My gut tells me that if the City does not allow WalMart to locate there, it will be many moons before they find anyone else willing to make that kind of capital investment in the Newtown area.
As for all the talk about "slave labor", check the labels next time you are in Macy's or Dillards.
Come on people. What makes more sense. Wal-Mart with jobs....discounts for lower income families...donations to local schools, a boost to the old economy. A nice cleanup for the neighborhood. Or the hope that someone, someday,maybe, might be, interested in that property. Swollow the pride, and take a step forward into the future, not a step back into the same old same old, and the we never did it that way before.
For the past years the Newtown area has sought economic development and a desire to attract business and customers to that portion of our community. Job availability has always been in the forefront of any discussions with the various Community leaders.
We tend to make judgements based on our own perspective, such as let them go elsewhere. If we want to shop there, work there, etc. we can drive there. We do not see the advantages from the perspective of a neighborhood who may not be as mobile or as able to go as easily to Cattleman Road, Osprey or University Parkway as we can. Not everyone transportation resources readily available to them.
The advantages for Walmart at the Brownfield site are real and tangible:
1) The site will be cleaned up and returned to productive revenue producing property with less impact on the City taxpayer;
2) It may well provide a much needed boost to get economic development rolling in Newtown. There has been too much talk and too little action in this area for years.
3) It will provide job opportunities to a community that has been patiently asking for such opportunities for years. This is a great opportunity to the area's youth. Many of us began our working careers in these types of jobs.
4) The job opportunities Walmart will provide to the Newtown community,especially for those who have transportation issues or for those wishing to work in their neighborhood, are real and beneficial to the community at large.
5) Walmart has proven itself to be a good coporate citizen. One need look no further than Charlotte County and the aftermath of Hurricane Charley.
I understand that there is now a competing use for the Brownfield site being offered by a minister in Newtown. His vision deserves careful consideration and review, as well. Remembering that Newtown has been seeking economic redevelopment for years, this offer should be evaluated on the basis of its feasibility, its cost to the taxpayer, and how long it will take to bring this vision to fruition.
Finally, the decision to locate Walmart at that location is one that will impact the entire community, not just Newtown. But, if the Newtown community embraces the project and Walmart is interested in moving ahead, I think this will prove to be a win for Newtown and the entire community.
Not to excited about a Walmart downtown but if Newtown really feels this would be good then I hope the city negotiates hard and gets a good deal for Newtown.
I have a questions about another city deal. Is it true the city may have to invest over $50,000. per parking space into the Pineapple Square project? When you take all the things the developer wants and add them together it comes to over $50,000. per parking space. If the city already owns the parking lot on State Street why do they not build public parking and rental units for affordable living? The TIF money could pay for that and then they would not have to give the land to the developer. Now if the deal is better than that then I do not have a problem with the developer getting the exchange.
Good questions about Pineapple Square. I don't think we've completely defined the per-space cost as proposed by the developer, though Karin Murphy from the Planning staff has been working very hard to define the proposed deal. I can safely say the number will be very high.
It is certain that the analysis by the City Commission of what the City is being asked to put into the development vs. benefits for the community will be extremely interesting. On one hand there is a lot of support for this phenomenal project, on the other hand the higher the City's proposed costs get the better the development of our own parking on the State Street lot will look by comparison.
Our immediate task is to clarify the specifics of the proposal so they can be well understood by the commission and the community, and I'm glad we have Karin in our corner for that. The rest will follow from there.
Plenty of Wal-mart examples out there with store-front-like design. If approved, don't let it be a big grey box with a red stripe.
Great comments so far, and special commendation to Ed (I assume) Whitehead for signing his name, I appreciate knowing to whom I'm speaking. More food for thought - It is generally accepted that to put any type of housing on the site would ratchet up the clean-up cost considerably, and perhaps prohibitively, because it clean-up would have to be done to a higher standard than what would be required for a large commercial footprint and parking lot (think children playing in the yards, etc.) Just additional information for the discussion...
Neil Peirce, the Washington Post columnist, has recently written about WalMart vs Costco. Costco is an able competitor of WalMart and provides higher wages and higher benefits to employees. The closest Costco to Sarasota is 40 miles (Brandon).
Why have we not actively searched for desired businesses for the MLK/301 location and actively recruited the best options for Newtown and the larger community?
It seems that we just wait until someone comes along with a proposal then we debate the merits of that proposal. We all know that the best options come when competition exists. We should actively look for options for this property then, and only then, will we be able to evaluate the WalMart proposal.
I have posted more information about Neil Peirce's column at the Save Our Sarasota Blogsite
Take a look at these comments and Neil Peirce's column.
Dick Clapp
Regardless of any arguments pro or con walmart, it seems unlikely that 301 can handle anymore additional traffic in it's current state. What about concurrency?
Mike: I’m struck by the parallel between the proposed WalMart on MLK Way and the Whole Foods downtown. Again, the city will need to pay up front to bring a grocery into a needy ‘hood. Downtown needed a fancy market, and after the application of cash, got one. Now we have another ‘hood in need of a market, and with more cash, they could get one too.
I’m on record saying WalMart is a bad idea. It’s really the Greater Chinese Trading Company disguised as an American business. WalMart is a middleman between sweatshops and cheap Americans. That’s a winning combination if ever there was one. So no surprise the company is America’s largest employer. Low wages, no benefits, demolition of local business, cheapest prices. Yes, and so what?
I admit the attraction. Folks from Bentonville clean up a brownfield nobody else will touch. Soon, jobs, jobs, jobs. Cheap prices for people who don’t have a lot of cash. Win-win, right?
Jobs. Cash in the ‘hood. Cheap eats and cheap goods too. Traffic will be a mess, of course. For the hundreds of paychecks, there will be the “where do we sleep” problem of affordable housing. To say nothing of health care.
In this single plot (of land, but maybe narrative too), we see the dilemma of Sarasota entire. Traffic, housing, renewal, accommodation. Against my better judgment, Mike, I’d probably vote in favor. It smacks of the quick & easy solution I should fear. But once again, what’s the alternative? If there is one thing I do fear, it’s the stacked deck. s/Stan Zimmerman
Stan - One place I don't see the parallel to Whole foods (although generally I do) is that no subsidy has been asked for by the developer or proposed by the city, that is aside from whatever benefit the developer gains by the project's location in the Enterprise Zone, which accrues to anyone, and doesn't represent payment by the city. The only potential for cash-in by the city is if the cleanup costs exceed the value of the land, and the experts (appraisers and environmental consultants) think that may be the case to the tune of one to 2 million dollars. That is what I understand so far about Wal-Mart's proposal, we will know definitively next week I believe.
I think your ambivilance is represenative of how many feel on this one.
Our Newtown area can do better than Wal-Mart!!! Cheap prices? Not when we taxpayers have to pay their employees insurance! They're union busters, they've discriminated against blacks AND women, they run Mom and Pop stores out of business, and they tell Communist China what and how much to produce for them. Over 75% of their products are manufactured in Communist China!! That alone should be enough to keep them out of not only Sarasota, but out of the entire country. I don't understand why people don't use their power to affect change by not shopping at ANY Wal Mart!! Affect change with your wallet!!! Wal Mart is certainly not a specialty shop. Check out Dollar General!!! I like the Costco suggestion, why don't we investigate them coming in? I too say no to Wal Mart, our Newtown community can do better!!
I have read all the comments that came from concern residents and some that wanted to give their opinion. I know we want to build Newtown! But is newtown ready!!. I have been there for six years and I have not seen our black leaders come together and put a stop to black on black crime,drug traffic in front our churhes and homes. And the housing authority tenants not participating in their own meeting because of fear' our community. You don't put a rod in a -hood and their not prepared. Let's come together and resolve some of these problems in our community, and when the good out weight the bad, then lets sit down and talk.
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